Letterboxing USA - Yahoo Groups Archive

About geocaching

15 messages in this thread | Started on 2003-09-22

About geocaching

From: Silent Doug (silentdoug@letterboxing.info) | Date: 2003-09-22 18:59:14 UTC-04:00
There's been some discussion of geocaching lately, so I thought I'd provide
some background on that activity, especially as it relates to letterboxing.

Essentially, geocaching is a lot like letterboxing, while being quite
different from it. (Think of a racing cyclist and a mountain biker; someone
who doesn't ride a bike thinks that both activities are quite alike, while
enthusiasts of each activity look at the other as being quite different.)

A geocache is hidden (in the woods, in the city, in a park, under water),
but instead of clues, longitude and latitude coordinates that point to the
cache location are published. Using a GPS (global positioning system)
handheld unit (available for as little as $99), other geocachers then try
to find the cache. GPS accuracy ranges from 12 to 70 feet depending on
cloud cover, terrain and the unit itself, so it's not like a finder just
walks up to the cache and "finds" it. Once your GPS gets you within range,
you have to start a search for likely hiding spots in the area -- depending
on the accuracy of the hider's GPS and your GPS, the area could be 150
square feet or more in size.

Though many geocachers don't use maps, a bit of advance planning is often
required to find available trails and the best route to the cache, unless
you want to bushwhack through the forest. A geocache typically includes a
log as well as trinkets -- the idea is that the finders will swap an item
in the geocache with something they've brought along. Personally, I think
this is a kinda dumb practice (and it's amazing how often ill-informed
geocachers leave food or candy), but geocachers probably think those
hand-carved stamps are kinda dumb, too. I'm not alone -- many geocachers
simply log in to finds with the annotation "TNLN," "took nothing, left
nothing." Some geocaches also include clues that must be figured out before
the cache can be found, and these can be just as creative as letterbox clues.

It's probably an overgeneralization to say that geocachers are
"destructive." One thing you have to remember is that there are many times
more geocachers than letterboxers. Compare the sheer numbers: As of
9/22/03, there are 68,796 active geocaches in 185 countries (but mostly in
the US). In the last 7 days, 9,311 geocachers logged 36,794 caches (either
as found or not found). There are probably more than 50,000 geocachers in
the US.

As of today, there are 6,821 letterboxes planted around the US, and there
are just over 1,000 letterboxers on this list; perhaps another 3,000 (by my
estimate) who are active but don't belong to the discussion list.

With nearly 10 times as many geocaches and geocachers out there looking for
them, it's no surprise that geocachers often stumble onto letterboxes. A
good hiding space for a letterbox is usually a good hiding space for a
geocache, so there's often quite a lot of overlap; just yesterday, a
geocacher found one of my Superboxer series while looking for a place to
hide her cache. She was polite enough to write me to tell me that it was in
good shape, even though she didn't have a clue about letterboxing (I'll
never get tired of that pun ).

So, sure, there are irresponsible geocachers, just like there are
irresponsible letterboxers. But with 5 to 10 times as many geocachers out
there, the damage that even careful searching can do is often much more
pronounced.

You can learn more about it at www.geocaching.com. You don't need a GPS to
join the site, and you can search for geocaches in your zip code or area
(you can also use a site like topozone.com to find your own GPS
coordinates). Each cache on the site has maps linked to mapquest.com, so
you can get a general idea of the location of caches in your area -- and if
there might be one in the vicinity of a letterbox you've planted. This
won't stop a geocacher from planting a geocache a few feet from yours, but
if that happens you might want to leave a note in your letterbox to inform
geocachers who inadvertently find it that it's not what they're looking for.

I often carry my GPS when I'm letterboxing, and can then see if there are
geocaches along the same trail, which makes for an added bonus.

All in all, it's in the best interests of both activities if we respect
each other and try to get along as best we can. Unfortunately, there's no
practical way that we can expect to educate all those geocachers about
letterboxing, so the onus is on us to do more than our share.

Doug


|-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-|
Silent Doug, P32 F220 E06 X27
silentdoug@letterboxing.info
http://www.letterboxing.info

----------


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Re: [LbNA] About geocaching

From: Mary (RI) (rid25751@ride.ri.net) | Date: 2003-09-22 21:02:34 UTC-04:00
A thoughtful, insightful, and respectful post, Doug. It's just human nature to make generalizations.

It's staggering to think of that many cachers out there.

Mary (RI)
----- Original Message -----
From: Silent Doug
To: LbPNW@yahoogroups.com ; letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 6:59 PM
Subject: [LbNA] About geocaching


There's been some discussion of geocaching lately, so I thought I'd provide
some background on that activity, especially as it relates to letterboxing.

It's probably an overgeneralization to say that geocachers are
"destructive." One thing you have to remember is that there are many times
more geocachers than letterboxers. Compare the sheer numbers: As of
9/22/03, there are 68,796 active geocaches in 185 countries (but mostly in
the US). In the last 7 days, 9,311 geocachers logged 36,794 caches (either
as found or not found). There are probably more than 50,000 geocachers in
the US.

As of today, there are 6,821 letterboxes planted around the US, and there
are just over 1,000 letterboxers on this list; perhaps another 3,000 (by my
estimate) who are active but don't belong to the discussion list.

With nearly 10 times as many geocaches and geocachers out there looking for
them, it's no surprise that geocachers often stumble onto letterboxes. A
good hiding space for a letterbox is usually a good hiding space for a
geocache, so there's often quite a lot of overlap; just yesterday, a
geocacher found one of my Superboxer series while looking for a place to
hide her cache. She was polite enough to write me to tell me that it was in
good shape, even though she didn't have a clue about letterboxing (I'll
never get tired of that pun ).



---
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Re: About geocaching

From: funhog1 (funhog@pacifier.com) | Date: 2003-09-23 02:10:50 UTC

Funny, I just posted a message on the PNW Talk List about an hour ago that made
almost the same points. Right on target, Silent Doug. Funhog


Re: About geocaching

From: Bob LaBelle (r.labelle@verizon.net) | Date: 2003-09-23 03:03:52 UTC
Well said, Silent Doug; we do need to take account of geocaching in
the placement of and providing security for our boxes. And, if only
because of our lesser numbers, we shouldn't shrink from doing more
than our share in amiably coexisting. I've done a bit of geocaching
myself - favoring the hybrid- and/or micro- cahes.
Bob / 'Cock o' the Trail'

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Silent Doug
wrote:
> There's been some discussion of geocaching lately, so I thought I'd
provide
> some background on that activity, especially as it relates to
letterboxing.
>
>


Re: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching

From: RayvenMom (RayvenMom@myndworx.com) | Date: 2003-09-22 20:26:59 UTC-07:00
Seems like you, Funhog, Silent Doug, and Steve S. (RayvenDad) all had the same thoughts on this sport and basically said the same things.... does that mean that most letterboxers think alike on this??? *smiles*

RayvenMom
----- Original Message -----
From: funhog1
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 7:10 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching


*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Funny, I just posted a message on the PNW Talk List about an hour ago that made
almost the same points. Right on target, Silent Doug. Funhog


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Re: About geocaching

From: mulbie (mulbie@yahoo.com) | Date: 2003-09-23 13:17:39 UTC
I agree with Silent Doug's and Funhog's postings for the most part.
We actually got into letterboxing from geocaching, basically because
found the "trinkets" pretty silly sometimes. Some geocachers have
signature trinkets that are pretty nice, but a lot just leave little
toys. The travel bugs, however, are a lot of fun. Much like
hitchhikers except that you can track their progress online. Most
geocachers don't bushwack unless absolutely necessary, however more
trampling is often involved than is the case in letterboxing. The
whole idea of the puzzles in letterboxing, however, caught our fancy,
and the carving just adds to the fun. We have become so hooked on
letterboxing that I have 3 or four geocaching bugs that I've never
released because I lost interest and/or ran out of time for both
hobbies. Using the GPS to get you to the correct starting point
(parking lot, etc.) for a letterbox find, however, is fun to do. We
often use topozone to look at the area, figure out GPS coordinates,
and use the GPS in addition to maps to plot our travels.

Mary Manatee


Re: About geocaching

From: acahilly@prodigy.net (acahilly@prodigy.net) | Date: 2003-09-23 22:03:31 UTC
We're one of those his/hers, geocache/letterbox families. We usually
find one of each in each worthy location. Geocaches seem to show up
in what I would consider unworthy locations, too. I guess the
playing with the gadget makes up for the lack of view.
Two harmless types of geocache which deserve mention are
the "virtual" and the "locationless". For a virtual, you really do
go to a location, and have to find the answer to a question for the
placer to verify your find. My husband has done this with neat spots
containing letterboxes and not enough room in the area for another
hidden object.
Locationless are not caches at all either. It's a classification of
object, and when you find one, you post it's location with a picture
including your GPS unit. Sounds silly, but makes for great online
fun for the "placer". We've been tracking postings of original
survey stones from the Mason/Dixon survey of the PA/MD border.

Somethng for everyone.
Aud


Re: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching

From: Steve S. (kerjin@myndworx.com) | Date: 2003-09-24 06:42:08 UTC-07:00
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*


It is almost funny how the same points get made within a few hours of each
other at times. Must be that great minds think alike.

Steve of Rayvenhaus
The PNWLb Website - http://www.myndworx.com
(Whose sig can be seen at http://www.myndworx.com/rayvenhaus )

----- Original Message -----
From: "funhog1"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 7:10 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching


> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
>
> Funny, I just posted a message on the PNW Talk List about an hour ago that
made
> almost the same points. Right on target, Silent Doug. Funhog
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



[LbNA] Re: About geocaching

From: Brian, Ryan & Lori (bconnoll@marksonrosenthal.com) | Date: 2003-09-24 13:54:24 UTC
What's really funny is that these points have all been brought up in
the past .

Brian
TeamGreenDragon


Re: About geocaching

From: Maddog (mcjones@layc.org) | Date: 2003-09-24 18:13:04 UTC
It is just so sad when a geocacher combined my box with thiers then
the next geocacher took my stamp. Some of this was my ignorance..

1) I never thought to look see if there was a geocache around first
before I planted the box and it would not have helped since this one
geocache was planted after my letterbox. Perhaps this should be in
the HOW TO PLANT a LETTERBOX advice? Perhaps something could be
added to the GEOCACHER HOW TO WEB SITES?

2) I never thought to put LEAVE do NOT TAKE on the stamp and this is
not a geocache please do NOT COMBINE in my box. Perhaps this should
be in the HOW TO PLANT a LETTERBOX advice or letter?

3) the once overgrown hidding place was soo stomped up and the
geocache box was so big that anyone could find it.. We had hidden a
small jar with black tape all gone only my log to trace the stamp.

I have emailed the stamp taker someone did respond that they would
look for it but that thier house is a mess...I even had the
letterbox notice translated into spanish (important out here in CA)

MaddogBMW

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Silent Doug
wrote:
> There's been some discussion of geocaching lately, so I thought
I'd provide
> some background on that activity, especially as it relates to
letterboxing.
>
> Essentially, geocaching is a lot like letterboxing, while being
quite
> different from it. (Think of a racing cyclist and a mountain
biker; someone
> who doesn't ride a bike thinks that both activities are quite
alike, while
> enthusiasts of each activity look at the other as being quite
different.)
>
> A geocache is hidden (in the woods, in the city, in a park, under
water),
> but instead of clues, longitude and latitude coordinates that
point to the
> cache location are published. Using a GPS (global positioning
system)
> handheld unit (available for as little as $99), other geocachers
then try
> to find the cache. GPS accuracy ranges from 12 to 70 feet
depending on
> cloud cover, terrain and the unit itself, so it's not like a
finder just
> walks up to the cache and "finds" it. Once your GPS gets you
within range,
> you have to start a search for likely hiding spots in the area --
depending
> on the accuracy of the hider's GPS and your GPS, the area could be
150
> square feet or more in size.
>
> Though many geocachers don't use maps, a bit of advance planning
is often
> required to find available trails and the best route to the cache,
unless
> you want to bushwhack through the forest. A geocache typically
includes a
> log as well as trinkets -- the idea is that the finders will swap
an item
> in the geocache with something they've brought along. Personally,
I think
> this is a kinda dumb practice (and it's amazing how often ill-
informed
> geocachers leave food or candy), but geocachers probably think
those
> hand-carved stamps are kinda dumb, too. I'm not alone -- many
geocachers
> simply log in to finds with the annotation "TNLN," "took nothing,
left
> nothing." Some geocaches also include clues that must be figured
out before
> the cache can be found, and these can be just as creative as
letterbox clues.
>
> It's probably an overgeneralization to say that geocachers are
> "destructive." One thing you have to remember is that there are
many times
> more geocachers than letterboxers. Compare the sheer numbers: As
of
> 9/22/03, there are 68,796 active geocaches in 185 countries (but
mostly in
> the US). In the last 7 days, 9,311 geocachers logged 36,794 caches
(either
> as found or not found). There are probably more than 50,000
geocachers in
> the US.
>
> As of today, there are 6,821 letterboxes planted around the US,
and there
> are just over 1,000 letterboxers on this list; perhaps another
3,000 (by my
> estimate) who are active but don't belong to the discussion list.
>
> With nearly 10 times as many geocaches and geocachers out there
looking for
> them, it's no surprise that geocachers often stumble onto
letterboxes. A
> good hiding space for a letterbox is usually a good hiding space
for a
> geocache, so there's often quite a lot of overlap; just yesterday,
a
> geocacher found one of my Superboxer series while looking for a
place to
> hide her cache. She was polite enough to write me to tell me that
it was in
> good shape, even though she didn't have a clue about letterboxing
(I'll
> never get tired of that pun ).
>
> So, sure, there are irresponsible geocachers, just like there are
> irresponsible letterboxers. But with 5 to 10 times as many
geocachers out
> there, the damage that even careful searching can do is often much
more
> pronounced.
>
> You can learn more about it at www.geocaching.com. You don't need
a GPS to
> join the site, and you can search for geocaches in your zip code
or area
> (you can also use a site like topozone.com to find your own GPS
> coordinates). Each cache on the site has maps linked to
mapquest.com, so
> you can get a general idea of the location of caches in your area -
- and if
> there might be one in the vicinity of a letterbox you've planted.
This
> won't stop a geocacher from planting a geocache a few feet from
yours, but
> if that happens you might want to leave a note in your letterbox
to inform
> geocachers who inadvertently find it that it's not what they're
looking for.
>
> I often carry my GPS when I'm letterboxing, and can then see if
there are
> geocaches along the same trail, which makes for an added bonus.
>
> All in all, it's in the best interests of both activities if we
respect
> each other and try to get along as best we can. Unfortunately,
there's no
> practical way that we can expect to educate all those geocachers
about
> letterboxing, so the onus is on us to do more than our share.
>
> Doug
>
>
> |-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-|
> Silent Doug, P32 F220 E06 X27
> silentdoug@l...
> http://www.letterboxing.info
>
> ----------
>
>
> ---
>
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 09/18/2003
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching

From: Steve S. (kerjin@myndworx.com) | Date: 2003-09-26 12:50:50 UTC-07:00
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*


Want to know what's almost really funny? The fact that it is being
discussed again. (Grin) There's new people on the list, people who don't
know much about Geocaching, let alone Letterboxing and are hungry for
knowledge. Being a very controversial topic, it will, as always, generate
some very emotional responses. But, as always, communication and knowledge
sharing is a wonderful thing! ;-)

Steve of Rayvenhaus
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
The PNWLb Website - http://www.myndworx.com
(Whose sig can be seen at http://www.myndworx.com/rayvenhaus )

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian, Ryan & Lori"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 6:54 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching


> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
> What's really funny is that these points have all been brought up in
> the past .
>
> Brian
> TeamGreenDragon
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



Re: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching

From: (KBuquet@ApertureFoto.com) | Date: 2003-09-26 22:29:11 UTC-07:00
Sharing of ideas and thoughts is indeed a great thing!

I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest here...however I do value every single persons opinion on the subject.

Yes, I did give much thought and consideration before attempting to petition the group for supplies. However, with that in mind...I do not wish to shed and bad light on the sport and if placing boxes here may do that...than by all means I will refrain.

However, I am still very confident that by placing the boxes in buildings (with the inhabitants knowledge and blessing...sort of like my VA wine trail box) it will ensure that noone will figure it to be any type of bomb or terrorist device.

That way the guy behind the desk (counter or whatever) will "hand over the box" only when specifically asked..or maybe given a codeword once the clues are figured out.

NewBe1

Kristoffer J Buquet
kristoffer.buquet@us.army.mil


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RE: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching

From: Julia MacNeil (juliamacneil@rogers.com) | Date: 2003-09-27 09:33:26 UTC-04:00
I'm not sure what the hub bub is all about. I am new to Letterboxing
just this past summer. There are exactly 4 letterboxes in my area and I
have found them all. The number of Geocaches in my area is astounding.
I could be kept busy for years. Isn't the point to get out there and
enjoy the world that God has created? Not, who put what in what box and
how did you find it! I don't think there is enough difference between
letterboxing and geocaching to created such a stir. I have crossed
over, but I am still just as respectful of my surroundings as I was when
I found my very first letterbox. There is enough conflict in the world
around us....why can't we realize we are all the same and play nice
together?

Nana


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve S. [mailto:kerjin@myndworx.com]
Sent: September 26, 2003 3:51 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching


*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm)
Pro*


Want to know what's almost really funny? The fact that it is being
discussed again. (Grin) There's new people on the list, people who
don't
know much about Geocaching, let alone Letterboxing and are hungry for
knowledge. Being a very controversial topic, it will, as always,
generate
some very emotional responses. But, as always, communication and
knowledge
sharing is a wonderful thing! ;-)

Steve of Rayvenhaus
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
The PNWLb Website - http://www.myndworx.com
(Whose sig can be seen at http://www.myndworx.com/rayvenhaus )

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian, Ryan & Lori"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 6:54 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching


> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm)
Pro*
> What's really funny is that these points have all been brought up in
> the past .
>
> Brian
> TeamGreenDragon
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>




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Re: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching

From: Steve S. (kerjin@myndworx.com) | Date: 2003-09-27 07:45:55 UTC-07:00
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*


Well, in my not so humble opinion, and I mean no disrespect when I say this,
but the two are completely different other than the foundation. To say that
they are the same because one hides something and others find it is like
saying that a Ford and a Ferrari or BMW or Jaguar or MG are the same because
they all use gasoline and oil.

I'm not saying that all geocachers destroy the environment, nor am I saying
that all letterboxers are it's champions either. I am saying that, because
of the sheer numbers, the same numbers that you quote, it becomes more a
game of quantity than quality.

It has been my experience that most people in today's society, and I'm not
pointing fingers at anyone, want the easy things, they want things given to
them, they'd rather someone else did the work for them. They are by far,
much to lazy to exercise their brain, let alone their legs. Bu that's not
the main point here.

First and foremost, if you enjoy letterboxing, then by all means do
letterboxing. If you enjoy geocaching, do geocaching. Whichever hobby to
decide upon, or if you decide upon both, more power to you. In this day and
age, finding people that are respectful of themselves, let alone, other
people, or even the environment, is a rare thing. Respect the environment,
become it's steward, there's not much left and what is left, is being
damaged at a rate that will overwhelm you if it doesn't make you bury your
head in the sand and pretend it's not happening. This isn't about which
ones better, letterboxing or geocaching, nor is it about which makes you a
better person, neither do that. Only you can make a difference, and it has
become my experience that far to few strive to make that change within
themselves.

I'm no better than anyone on this list and if any of my words have come
across in that manner here and now or before, I apologize and beg your
forgiveness. My intent is to share my thoughts and ideas, my feelings and
to learn from you. No to harp and tell you how it must be. I am a very
strong willed person and tend to vocally (Whether in real time or here in
cyberspace) share those thoughts. (Grin)

I personally will not become a geocacher. It does not draw me only for one
reason. Using a technological device to drive to the spot where the hidden
treasure lies (+/- 25 feet or more, depending on the accuracy of the device
being used initially) is not something that I find a thrill in. On the other
hand, using my story telling abilities to weave a story, my limited carving
abilities to create a one of a kind, work of art to some, a simple rubber
stamp to others, to find the location to place that letterbox, to place it
and to watch and wait for a report that someone has found it, that's what
draws me.

And it makes me no better or worse than anyone else.

Steve of Rayvenhaus
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
The PNWLb Website - http://www.myndworx.com
(Whose sig can be seen at http://www.myndworx.com/rayvenhaus )


P.S. If there's only a few letterboxes in your area, plant more. "Plant it
and they will come!" is the motto of our website. Tell others about your
hobby and share it. Before you know it, you'll have more letterboxes than
you can shake a stick at and you'll have fostered some of the best
friendships you can imagine, all because you shared your passion with your
fellow man (Or woman). Give it a try, what's the worst that can happen? No
one else ever plants any letterboxes and you continue on geocaching. Just a
thought.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Julia MacNeil"
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 6:33 AM
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching


> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
> I'm not sure what the hub bub is all about. I am new to Letterboxing
> just this past summer. There are exactly 4 letterboxes in my area and I
> have found them all. The number of Geocaches in my area is astounding.
> I could be kept busy for years. Isn't the point to get out there and
> enjoy the world that God has created? Not, who put what in what box and
> how did you find it! I don't think there is enough difference between
> letterboxing and geocaching to created such a stir. I have crossed
> over, but I am still just as respectful of my surroundings as I was when
> I found my very first letterbox. There is enough conflict in the world
> around us....why can't we realize we are all the same and play nice
> together?
>
> Nana



[LbNA] Re: About geocaching

From: dogmom_2 (dogmom@peoplepc.com) | Date: 2003-09-30 01:02:09 UTC
You make it sound like you can just drive up to within 25 feet of
every geocache, which is certainly not the case, and in my area it
is certainly the exception. I have read clues to letterboxes where
I am sure you can drive to within 25 feet of where it is hidden, so
even letterboxers hide those types (which I am sure are appreciated
by those who are handicapped but would like to participate in this
hobby also).

I am in the same situation Nana is in and feel the same way she
does. There are only a few letterboxes near me and almost 500
geocaches within a 100 mile radius. I enjoy both but there aren't
enough letterboxes to hunt. I have hidden a few and hope
letterboxing becomes more popular in this area, but it sounds like
you don't want that to happen either because then it will become a
game of "quantity not quality".

I enjoy the stamp carving aspect of letterboxing and seeing other's
artwork. I have also gotten some pretty neat handmade items out of
geocaches. There are limitations on hiding geocaches where you
can't get good satellite reception due to heavy tree cover, but
there are also limitations on hiding letterboxes in places where
there aren't any good landmarks to clue people into. Both hobbies
have taken me to very cool places that I might not have been to
otherwise, therefore I am going to continue to do both.

Dogmom
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Steve S." wrote:
> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate
(tm) Pro*
>
>
> Well, in my not so humble opinion, and I mean no disrespect when I
say this,
> but the two are completely different other than the foundation.
To say that
> they are the same because one hides something and others find it
is like
> saying that a Ford and a Ferrari or BMW or Jaguar or MG are the
same because
> they all use gasoline and oil.
>
> I'm not saying that all geocachers destroy the environment, nor am
I saying
> that all letterboxers are it's champions either. I am saying
that, because
> of the sheer numbers, the same numbers that you quote, it becomes
more a
> game of quantity than quality.
>
> It has been my experience that most people in today's society, and
I'm not
> pointing fingers at anyone, want the easy things, they want
things given to
> them, they'd rather someone else did the work for them. They are
by far,
> much to lazy to exercise their brain, let alone their legs. Bu
that's not
> the main point here.
>
> First and foremost, if you enjoy letterboxing, then by all means do
> letterboxing. If you enjoy geocaching, do geocaching. Whichever
hobby to
> decide upon, or if you decide upon both, more power to you. In
this day and
> age, finding people that are respectful of themselves, let alone,
other
> people, or even the environment, is a rare thing. Respect the
environment,
> become it's steward, there's not much left and what is left, is
being
> damaged at a rate that will overwhelm you if it doesn't make you
bury your
> head in the sand and pretend it's not happening. This isn't about
which
> ones better, letterboxing or geocaching, nor is it about which
makes you a
> better person, neither do that. Only you can make a difference,
and it has
> become my experience that far to few strive to make that change
within
> themselves.
>
> I'm no better than anyone on this list and if any of my words have
come
> across in that manner here and now or before, I apologize and beg
your
> forgiveness. My intent is to share my thoughts and ideas, my
feelings and
> to learn from you. No to harp and tell you how it must be. I am a
very
> strong willed person and tend to vocally (Whether in real time or
here in
> cyberspace) share those thoughts. (Grin)
>
> I personally will not become a geocacher. It does not draw me only
for one
> reason. Using a technological device to drive to the spot where
the hidden
> treasure lies (+/- 25 feet or more, depending on the accuracy of
the device
> being used initially) is not something that I find a thrill in. On
the other
> hand, using my story telling abilities to weave a story, my
limited carving
> abilities to create a one of a kind, work of art to some, a simple
rubber
> stamp to others, to find the location to place that letterbox, to
place it
> and to watch and wait for a report that someone has found it,
that's what
> draws me.
>
> And it makes me no better or worse than anyone else.
>
> Steve of Rayvenhaus
> "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
> The PNWLb Website - http://www.myndworx.com
> (Whose sig can be seen at http://www.myndworx.com/rayvenhaus )
>
>
> P.S. If there's only a few letterboxes in your area, plant
more. "Plant it
> and they will come!" is the motto of our website. Tell others
about your
> hobby and share it. Before you know it, you'll have more
letterboxes than
> you can shake a stick at and you'll have fostered some of the best
> friendships you can imagine, all because you shared your passion
with your
> fellow man (Or woman). Give it a try, what's the worst that can
happen? No
> one else ever plants any letterboxes and you continue on
geocaching. Just a
> thought.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julia MacNeil"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 6:33 AM
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: About geocaching
>
>
> > *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate
(tm) Pro*
> > I'm not sure what the hub bub is all about. I am new to
Letterboxing
> > just this past summer. There are exactly 4 letterboxes in my
area and I
> > have found them all. The number of Geocaches in my area is
astounding.
> > I could be kept busy for years. Isn't the point to get out
there and
> > enjoy the world that God has created? Not, who put what in what
box and
> > how did you find it! I don't think there is enough difference
between
> > letterboxing and geocaching to created such a stir. I have
crossed
> > over, but I am still just as respectful of my surroundings as I
was when
> > I found my very first letterbox. There is enough conflict in
the world
> > around us....why can't we realize we are all the same and play
nice
> > together?
> >
> > Nana